Additional Answers From TTNews.com's Chat Available
he chat session generated far more questions than the three panelists were able to answer during the 90 minutes allotted to the online discussion. TTnews.com asked Dr. Hank Goldberg, founder of Rair Industries and the sponsor of the chat session, to answer a number of those questions. The queries and his responses follow.
Question: If a driver takes the minimum two-hour sleeper berth break, does it apply to the 10 hours off-duty requirement at the end of the day? Or will the driver need to take a 10-hour break even though he has logged two hours in the sleeper berth in the 14 hours on duty?
Answer: In order to be counted, an additional eight-hour sleeper berth would be required. One isolated two-hour break will not count unless combined with another (or eight hrs) to make a total of 10 hours after 14 hours on duty.
Answer: There is no single qualifying sleeper berth period that can extend the 14-hour-day rule. In the scenario described, the driver would be able to complete the run providing that he spends at least an additional five hours in a sleeper berth at the end of the run. While it may make little sense, it appears that in order to use the “split sleeper” an additional five hours in the sleeper berth to make a total of 10 hrs, using the split sleeper. If he then takes an additional five hours consecutively off duty, he can then reset his 14-hour-day. (It makes no more sense to us than to you but it appears that that is exactly what is required)
Question: It seems there are two rules at work here. One says that after 10 consecutive hours off-duty, you can drive 11 full hours. So the question becomes, does that override the sleeper berth issue, since the driver perhaps was intending to use the split sleeper rule when he took a few hours off, and then discovers that he can take 10 hours off?
Answer: If you intend to use a sleeper berth in combination with another legitimate sleeper berth totaling 10 hours, you may do so. You cannot extend the 14-hour day by combining one sleeper berth with 10 off-duty hour. However, 10 consecutive off-duty hours will reset the 14-hour clock. The first sleeper berth will count against the 14-hour rule since it is not combined with another.
Question: And what if he puts in 10 sleeper berth hours? Does he still need to count the hours from before the 10 if he had previously used 2 hours with the intention of splitting sleeper berth time?
Answer: You now have a legitimate split sleeper. You do not have to count the first two hours as part of being on duty since it is now combined with another sleeper berth to make two. (This meets the requirement of the split sleeper berth but they must total at least 10 hours)
Question: Regarding the exemption granted to drivers servicing a natural gas or oil well location, Section 395.1 (2) : According to this section a 'Specially trained driver' is allowed to log off-duty hours that are not counted in the 14 consecutive hours if he has a sleeper berth OR if the facility has 'other sleeping accommodations'.
My question is: why doesn't this exemption pertain to industries other than oil & natural gas field drivers if the shipper or receiver has 'sleeping accommodations' for the drivers during loading or unloading?
Answer: You will have to ask the DOT that question.
Question: What happens if a driver heads into the sleeper berth for four hours, intending to use these hours as part of a split, and then discovers at the end of his day that he can take 10 consecutive hours off? Does he still have to put six of those 10 in the sleeper berth so that he is not in violation of the 14-hour rule?
Also, if he does end up getting 10 consecutive at the end of such a day, does he have 11 full hours of driving available again, or does he have to use that as part of that split time and use the hours beforehand in his calculations?
Answer: You are correct. You would have to put six hours in the sleeper berth to make this a legitimate split sleeper. While this makes little sense and may be changed, our interpretation of the rule appears to be just as you surmised.
If you have 10 consecutive hours off duty you may once again drive 11 hours.
Question: I don't see where the hours-of-service change will effect what I consider a medium length trip (500-600) miles. I do see where it could have an effect on a (1,000-mile trip). Am I looking at this correctly?
Answer: The mileage covered is not the issue, hours used to make the trip is. If you drove 11 hours and exceeded the 14-hour duty day limit you would be in violation no matter the distance of the trip.
Question: What role does the shipper take in logging drivers in and out at the time of loading or unload, or is this a driver responsibility. And are there any industry exceptions for agricultural related companies?
Answer: It is a driver responsibility. There are exceptions for some agricultural drivers.
Question: If our driver has five driving plus three hours on duty, then spends three hours in the sleeper berth, what happens when he is pulled over by DOT after having driven another five hours? How does he convince the DOT that he intends to return to the sleeper berth for an additional seven hours (the balance of his 10 hours of sleeper berth time) upon the conclusion of this 14-hour day?
Answer: We are informed (but not in writing) that an examiner will look to see if there is a pattern of split sleeper berth use in the past. If there is, the examiner will most likely allow the driver to continue.
Question: What is the advantage of the 16-hour rule if a driver can still only drive 11 hours?
Answer: The advantage is that it allows you to have an additional two hours of on-duty time for that day, if you return to your place of domicile each evening for the previous five days on duty. You can only use this once in seven days, and must take 10 hours off in between.
Question: Are there still conditions under which you can log off duty that doesn't count toward your limit, such as waiting to be loaded or unloaded? Where can an independent get a full copy of the new regulation? What about a clarification of the legalese so that we poor drivers can understand it?
Answer: There is no time when off duty time does not count unless it is a continuous 10 hours off duty or combined with a contiguous sleeper berth that totals 10 hours.
The FMCSA has both the hours of service regulations and a clarification of the “legalese” in a power point presentation.
Question: It is my understanding that the restart of the 70-hour clock after 34 hours of rest is optional. My company says that it is automatic. Which is it? If it is optional, whose option is it?
Answer: It seems that it is “optional” but if company policy wants it done, there seems little reason not to restart the clock.
Question: Are you saying that a truck driver that is home asleep, and is called in to hook up to a trailer that was loaded in the last four hours is going to be docked those four hours of load time from his 14 hours, causing him to lose them in his pay because he can't log time on the road?
Answer: It appears that when you begin the day or a duty cycle, that time will count against you.
Question: We are a tanker company and very rarely our drivers have to pump off or on, normally they can just go to bed. Will we have to start logging on line 4 for the time the driver is there or will he still be able to show the sleeper?
Answer: If you were able to go in to the sleeper berth under the present hours of service you can still do it under the new rules.
Question: A driver arrives at destination, pulls up to the dock, driver and warehousemen break seal, & unloading begins (which the driver is not a part of). Can the driver enter sleeper berth for at least two hours while the truck is being unloaded? Our policy is shipper load and count with exception to wet damage. At this point, with the driver in the sleeper berth, who is responsible for the load? Are there any other liability risks?
Answer: He can still go in to the sleeper berth. Who is responsible for the load is up to company policy.
Question: If allowed in sleeper berth in the above situation what type of communication can take place prior to completion of at least two hours’ rest? For example warehouse needs driver’s signature or warehouse needs to ask a question. This type of communication would not require driver to leave sleeper berth. Please explain what type of communications can take place that would not require driver to restart two hour break.
Answer: This does not appear to be changed by the new hours of service. While still open to interpretation we think that a simple question answered from the sleeper berth of very short duration will be allowed and not counted against the two-hour sleeper berth period.
Question: If driver runs out of time at destination or while unloading can someone at warehouse, with a CDL, move the truck away from the dock so the driver can take necessary sleeper berth break?
Answer: This has to be by company policy.
Question: Don't the new HOS rules conflict with labor laws regarding breaks?
Answer: You must ask a labor lawyer.
Question: I've heard that there are seven states that are not going to participate in the new HOS. Is this true, and which states are they and how will it affect us?
Answer: Interstate commerce is governed first by federal regulations. Intrastate may be governed by individual state law. However, be aware that the cargo within the truck governs the interstate commerce regulation. If the cargo has moved across a state line, it is in interstate commerce.
Question: Our drivers generally run regional, mostly in about a 300-600 mile radius. My question is if a driver utilizes the sleeper berth option during the week and then at the end of the week comes back to the terminal or even during the week makes it back into the terminal and goes home (logging that time as off duty) will the sleeper time for the day provided it meets all the other requirements of the split sleeper exception count towards his or her time off requirement? Or will it have to be counted towards the 14 hour on duty requirement? We have been hearing conflicting info as to how this will work.
Answer: While it may appear difficult to understand, sleeper berth time is only counted when at least two hours and combined with another sleeper berth. It is counted as on duty time even if followed by 10 consecutive “off-duty” hours.
Question: Current and new HOS regs permits "off-duty" time to be combined consecutively with "sleeper berth" to equal either eight hours or 10 hours, respectively, to meet the rest-period requirement. Yet, under the new regs "off-duty" time is included in calculating the 14th hour since coming on duty. The question is: will the "off-duty" period when combined with "sleeper berth" time (which equals in this case 10 hours) be used in calculating the 14-hour limit? Or, is the period NOT counted toward the 14-hour rule since it is being used to accumulate the 10 hours off-duty (similar to the splitting of sleeper berth under the new regulation amendment).
I raise this point as the revision to the Federal Register reads "The agency is therefore amending 395.1(g)(1)(iii) to clarify that drivers and motor carriers are required to count on-duty time, OFF-DUTY TIME NOT SPENT IN A SLEEPER BERTH and sleeper berth time of less than two hours toward the 14-hour limit.
I could find no mention if off-duty time, when used consecutively with sleeper berth time to equal 10 hours off, will be counted toward the 14-hour limit. It would seem reasonable to exempt the "off-duty" time from being counted towards the 14-hour on-duty rule when the same "off-duty" time is being used to accumulate 10 hours off.
Answer: While we have trouble understanding the rationale for some of these rules, we feel that your interpretation is correct. Off-duty time combined with sleeper berth time to equal 10 hours will allow a new 14-hour day to begin.
Question: Does the clock start over if I am off duty 1-2 and 1-3-2004?
Answer: No. The rules become effective 1/4/04. The total hours used in the 8/70 rule will be applied to the previous week.
Question: Pertaining to driver meals - if the company provides written authorization to a driver to log his meals "off-duty" is it required for the driver/company to have a copy of this authorization at all times?
Answer: We find nothing in the rules that require you to carry written authorization.
Question: Some rest areas and truck stops have limits to the time allowed for trucks, what if a driver is told to move on?
Answer: If you drive more than 11 hours or drive after more than 14 hours on duty, you will be responsible for any time in excess of these hours. It will be your responsibility to make sure that you are parked in an area that, it told to move on, will not exceed the limits of either your driving or on-duty day.
Question: Do the new hours of service regulations affect motor coach drivers?
Answer: New rules do not apply to interstate passenger carriers.
Question: Can a driver be forced by his dispatch to log unloading time at a shipper unload dock as off duty in the sleeper even though he is required to remain hooked to the load and responsible for security while "sleeping" in the sleeper. Is a driver allowed to get up and go the bathroom and get a snack while in the sleeper and if so does he need permission from his dispatcher or does he have the discretion to make the decision on his own?
Answer: If you are responsible for the security of the load, and if that requires you to be on duty, then it appears you would be on duty. If company policy allows you to be in the sleeper berth and are sleeping, that is allowed. You cannot be ordered to take sleeper berth time when, indeed, you are really on duty. You can go to the bathroom if required. Take the snack with you in to the sleeper.
Question: I have heard so many different versions concerning valid and invalid sleeper berth periods. The way I understand it, according to 395.1 g, if any 11-hour or 14-hour violation occurs on either side of the berth period, it causes the berth period to be invalid and require the driver to take 10 consecutive hours off. Is this correct?
Answer: The rule allows you to calculate time before and after each legitimate sleeper berth period (at least two hours each. If you have an 11- hour violation that occurs between two sleeper berth periods that add to 10 hours, that 11-hour violation will remain. When you begin to drive after the second sleeper berth you would have to deduct the time you drove between the sleeper berth periods. However, if the second sleeper berth was 10 or more hours you could then begin a fresh 11-hour driving period.
Question: If a driver were to exceed the 70-hour rule by two hours, does the 34-hour restart still apply or would it become a 36-hour restart?
Answer: The “current” interpretation does not allow a full restart after 34 hours if you have exceeded the 70 hour rule. You must calculate the number of hours or days necessary to become compliant and take that amount of time off before the 34-hour restart.
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